If you’ve been following along with the PSAs on the slaughter issue, you will have heard all their standard arguments many times. One of their favorite ones is that they should have the right to do as they wish with their property, which they consider their horses to be. I kinda punched a hole in that argument awhile ago, but as usual, it didn’t register with a single one of them. (https://shedrowconfessions.wordpress.com/2012/07/24/a-little-lesson-on-anatomy-and-the-english-language/). Basically, property is defined as things or belongings, buildings and/or land. In other words, inanimate objects. You can own a horse, but that horse will never be property. Which means, that there are laws outlining how that animal is to be treated and used to a degree. Depending on where you live, they may or may not be enforced with some consistency. Standard behavior for a PSA is if you don’t like the truth, just create your own version of it and proclaim it as fact. Unfortunately for them, they may have hit a rather large snag in that argument this week.
This week, the Oregon Court of Appeals has ruled that animals can considered to be `victims of crime’ in an abuse and neglect case. (http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Ore-court-rules-animals-aren-t-just-property-3757952.php#src=fb). This ruling stemmed from charges laid against Arnold Nix in April of 2009. The Umatilla County Sheriff’s Office acted on a tip and found dozens of starving animals on Nix’s farm. They ended up seizing 69 animals, including 43 goats, 24 horses and two dogs. There were also several dead and decomposing animals strewn about the property. Nix was originally charged with 93 separate counts of first degree animal neglect, with the jury finding him guilty on 20 accounts of second degree animal abuse at trial. Each count represented a specific horse and the maximum sentence should have been six months in prison and a $2500 fine for each conviction. Strangely, at sentencing, the original judge Jeffrey Wallace, merged 19 of the 20 counts into one singular conviction. Nix was handed a 90 day jail term and three years probation during sentencing, but the jail sentence was suspended. During Nix’s original sentencing, the defense argued that the horses could not be victims of crime because they were `property’. In this case, the `victim’ was the State of Oregon. The rationale was that only people, corporations and government could be victims of a crime and the judge agreed, resulting in the singular conviction. Wallace stated that killing one or many horses was the same thing. If allowed to stand, this would set a dangerous precedent in prosecuting future cases involving numerous animals such as hoarding.
Thankfully, the animals had an advocate on the state’s team and this story didn’t end in frustration like so many others. With Assistant Attorney General, Jamie Contreras arguing for the state and Scott Heisler filing the brief amicus curae (which means as a friend of the court) for the Animal Legal Defense Fund (http://www.aldf.org/article.php?id=1606), Nix’s case went back to court on appeal in December of 2011. The state argued that animals can be victims as they are sentient beings. I’m way over-simplifying this but you can read the entire submission here: (http://www.scribd.com/doc/101950477/STATE-OF-OREGON-v-ARNOLD-WELDON-NIX). The end results is that, among other things, the court ruled that each animal identified in each of the counts that Nix was convicted of qualifies as a separate victim for the purposes of sentencing and Wallace should not have merged counts in the original sentencing. Nix will now be scheduled for sentencing on 20 separate counts of abuse on a yet to be determined date. The DA office is also considering filing a separate case of neglect against Nix.
So what does this all mean? It means that in Oregon, at least, there may finally be real and significant penalties for animal abuse and neglect. This is exactly the sort of thing we need to address the suffering and neglect that horses and, to be fair, many other animals face. Rather than opening up slaughter houses and sweeping the issue under the carpet, people are going to be held responsible. Animals are not `things’ and this is a huge step towards making sure they are treated as the sentient beings they are. Do you know what else? I’ m willing to wager that Nix is such an asshat, that having a slaughter-house open, wouldn’t have changed a single thing. The PSAs want everybody to believe that prior to 2007, this sort of thing never happened. Of course that is not true. People have always abused and neglected animals and sadly, they always will. Slaughter didn’t fix it because mostly people were given slaps on the wrists for abusing animals and abusers aren’t necessarily the people that send to slaughter. Finally, with horses being recognized as victims, we are on the road to recovery. Another thing; Does anybody honestly believe that once those horses were seized, that they would have been turned over to the UH’s Rescue and Fatten Up for Slaughter Program? D-Bag Duquette thinks that their program will take in horses that are seized by authorities. Can you just imagine the headlines on that one? Me either…..
http://cs.thehorse.com/blogs/horses-and-the-law/archive/2011/04/26/who-s-the-victim-here.aspx
Sometimes horses that are siezed are returned to the owners. Would Duquette even have the time and patience to wait for the courts to fully release the horses to him? And WOULD they, knowing that they would potentially be rescuing a horse from one bad situation only to place it one with an even worse fate?
FYI: By law, property is defined as anything a person owns. By law, animals are considered a persons property.
Not in Oregon it isn’t!
Actually, the definitions of property varies from state to state; tax laws, business licensing, etc. There are many types of property and restrictions on it’s use and disposal.
I am sure each state has laws and regulations on the books that make it a violation or crime to with hold medical care, food and water, inflicting injury, etc. The problem is, and always has been ENFORCEMENT!
Car batteries and lead based paints and construction materials with same are regulated and enforced better than animals.
The definition the PSAs (define acronym please…I’m new here) is what the all encompassing “definition” they would like applied and they are having a tough time changing with society’s changing interpretation of “property” (NO SHIT).
Property definitions cannot be casually dismissed either.
The problem lies with authorities and enforcement.
PSA – pro slaughter advocate. I get sick of writing that out every time.
todd…is it the word “inanimate” that you don’t understand?? If so, please look it up in the dictionary.
inanimate….rather
Todd is Daffy’s mommy. Just ignore her.
I stated by the law of the United States-animals are considered property. Anything a person owns is considered their propert. This includes all goods including chattel. Look it up in the dictionary. Chattel includes all animals owned by a person.
Basically animals owned by someone are considered corporeal personal property, which includes such items as animals , jewelry, merchandise etc. Incorporeal property includes stocks, bonds, etc. real property includes land etc. Therefore, by law, animals are property.
Sorry, Todd, not all US laws….for instance, in a divorce animals are NOT considered “property”. Don’t like people who consider everything “their property”……they have a self-esteem problem.
I must disagree with you Barbara, as recently a friend obtained a divorce and all livestock and animals owned by them were considered property by law. That included their cattle, horses, and pets.
He was awarded the livestock and she received one half of their value.
I don’t know what state you’re in, but I know when I got my divorce I had to fight like hell for my animals…..attorney & judge both said they weren’t property. By the way, horses are not “livestock” they’re companion animals, just like dogs & cats. And I still think that anyone who makes such a big deal about “their property” has a self-esteem problem.
todd….because the livestock were considered assets. Geesh!
Entirely different conversation when discussing ABUSE, NEGLECT, ETC.
funny barbara when my dad got divorced the second time. all the horses and animals were considered property and was included in the divorce settleent
How many times do y’all get married???? Are you your own grandpa too?
umm my dad has been married 3 times. My mom was his first, then he married a nut case that tried to stab him in his sleep, then his thrid marriage the woman made him go bankrupt.
My mom married only once, Myself married once and have been for 16 yrs. my oldest sister married once and still is. my other sisters have not married,
Classy family! I’ assuming the jailbird sister hasn’t married yet?
That IS just way toooo funnny!!!! I see you let Daffy, back in!!!… Should be good for a few laughes…
did you miss where I said my other sisters have not married. ODD my dad was married for 17 yrs with my mom, he cheated they divorced. His second wife was ok at first then went off on him, when he took away her money, she got his horses, his house, his life in the divorce. He married a third time, and that lasted 3 yrs when that wife spent ALL his money. Yes he made mistakes.
You are over-sharing and digging yourself deeper. Stop. I’m becoming incontinent from laughing so hard.
Noone is making a big deal. Just clarifying the statement made by shedrow that horses were not property. And to clarify one more item, many people consider horses to be companion animals, but again by law they are considered livestock.
Don’t know what country you’re living in (must be pro-slaughter country) but I’m glad I live in the US where horses are not considered livestock.
Todd it Daffy’s Mom. Consider the source and wave goodbye if she keeps bombing us…sick of their crap.
Well gee, to Shedrow just found your blog, and have to admit it is funny, but why are you calling Todd daffys(?) mom, clearly this is a guy. When I looked up his FB page, Yep he does have one. He is not even from Ohio. Odd. Why do you seem to call people other people. Another thing that I have a question about, you run a blog, therefore people can comment, IF you do not want comments then why start a blog. I really don’t understand how you can say you they are “bombing” your page, you opened it up to comments and made it public.
Also as per the FDA yes horses are considered Companions that is what they state, BUT they do not consider them companions just to bann drugs. The Irs considers horses livestock. Many people are tax exempt with their horses and the only way the IRS accepts them as a tax exemption is because they are livestock, as per the USDA as well. Horses are only considered companions with the FDA a small part of the huge system.
Clearly a guy that uses `girl’ as part of his email addy and shares an IP with Daffy’s mommy? Ok….
Check the FDA website, Todd. THEY consider horses as “Companion Animals.” That’s why they are permitted to have banned substances in their meds and other products – they are regulated like companion animals, NOT livestock.
thats the FDA last i looked they are ONLY one thing. The IRS considers them livestock(because you can exempt livestock so your horses are livestock), as do the USDA livestock.
Clearly, you are unable to read properly. In Oregon, for the purposes of crime, they are no longer property. They can be victims. This is not good for you horse eaters at all…
And clearly Daffy hasn’t learned a thing, about getting kicked off of Fart, and UH… If your own kind can’t stand you, then where ya gonna go???
Now, Todd is MOM.. priceless!… What a family!… Is this one of those, pedigrees’ that the family tree doesn’t fork………. or what??
I think just like Wallis’s family, they breed them close…
umm i have NEVER been kicked off of the UH page. only farts, and I would have left after becky the admin called me a whore. BUT i have NOT been kicked off of the UH page
Try the FDA Veterinary
https://www.box.com/s/dfaea5a89815197ab677
https://www.box.com/s/7574fac721350f2af634
These are FDA reports concerning Companion Animals – dogs, cats, horses. Those links will take you to the reports.
the FDA is the only one that states they are not livestock, ODD don’t ya think when the IRS who gives you your tax exemption on horses, (livestock) and the USDA consider then livestock. Per the FDA email i have and yes i will gladly give it to whomever, it states that IF they ever change their status on how they consider horses they will start to test for the banned drugs. They are banned because they have NEVER had them tested for drugs in the system. ALSO per teh FDA your vet can go to a site that they give all vets and it will give them a withdrawl FOR EVERY SINGLE DRUG banned or not
In the United Staes. Never said I was pro-slaughter, but my horses are imo livestock, yes I operate a cattle ranch. yes we use our horses daily. Yes I do breed. I have tasted horsemeat. It’s good, the same as any other meat.
You do NOT operate a cattle ranch.
todd….another post that has NOTHING to do with the Oregon court decision and animal abuse, neglect, fucktard human ownership.
Never let FACTS and topic prevent a spin and deflection that will compete with the world’s best roller coaster ride.
No point in arguing with someone who likes to eat horses. They only have one mind set , everything belongs to them, it’s always their RIGHT. We’ll be changing that very soon. Probably consider their kids PROPERTY also.
You’re, of course, right Kathryn Ireland. I hadn’t been ignoring Todd, I just have other things to do. But still say I have a problem with people who keep sayin “their property”.
There bigger picture sheds light on fault with the “It’s my property and my right” augment. Horse Slaughter is not free. It will cost American tax payers 5 million a year by way of USDA inspections. Even if it is ‘your property and your right’, it is my dime and I stand opposed! I should not have to pay for the slaughtering of a non-food animal to a.) bail out the irresponsible owner and b.) feed some far away county.
* argument
EDIT: There bigger picture sheds light on fault with the “It’s my property and my right” argument. Horse Slaughter is not free. It will cost American tax payers 5 million a year by way of USDA inspections. Even if it is ‘your property and your right’, it is my dime and I stand opposed! I should not have to pay for the slaughtering of a non-food animal to a.) bail out the irresponsible owner and b.) feed some far away country.
What are you all talking about. I never said I slaughtered horses. I said I breed horses, yes, to further my herd. I run about 2000 cattle and prefer my bloodlines, and prefer to raise my own horses from birth.Yes, I said I tasted horsemeat before, nothing wrong with that, I have also sampled goat and snake. Well, I have no children but why would I call them property. I sure do not call my wife property, although at times she has been known to call me her property! LOL I do, speaking of feeding far away countries, help our local church provide food for children in undeveloped countries, nothing wrong with helping those in need. Give beef every year to local food banks also. Yes, I get them processed first!!!!! Have a whole pasture of about 35 rescue horses here also. really don’t know why as they aren’t good for nothing anymore, just a bunch of pasture ornaments I guess. Cost me more money then anything else. saw a couple the other day just roaming along the road. Sure is a shame people just turn them loose out here. Poor animals suffer a lot. Better off to put them down then turn them loose to the predators we have in these parts.
Todd, “putting down” is one thing, slaughter is quite another. “Putting down” generally refers to euthanasia, which means a quiet, fear-free, pain-free death. Slaughter is NOT euthanasia. Slaughter is the worst possible way for a horse to die. Predators would be infinitely preferable to slaughter. I’ve seen horse slaughter in a commercial slaughter plant. Have you?
You live in a trailer and do not own or operate anything. Stop lying and go away .
my mom lives in a single wide trailer which is a HOUSE and OWNS an acre of ground . Todd doesn’t even live in ohio. not sure who that is anyhow.
Same IP as your mommy, daffy. Stop lying.
Are you Sue Wallis or are you Dave Duquette? Either way, you were just sent here by one of them to cause problems because you’re cause is falling apart & you have nothing better to do. By the way, if you truly are a cattle rancher, I’ve stopped buying beef. Let’s see how you make out with no one buying your product. I just love pork & chicken!
Todd is actually Daffy’s mom and I’ve given her a time out. Sadly, she’ll register a new account and come back as somebody else. She is not a rancher, she lives in a trailer.
Excuse me-I do not live in a mobile home-I live in a ranch home in Wyoming. what are you talking about
Well tjsgirl, Daffy just said you live in a trailer on one whole acre of ranch. Unless you are ranching fleas, you’re a bit short of real estate to be a rancher….
I said MY MOM jeanne lives in a single wide trailer which is JUST Like a house. This TOdd person is NOT my mom. never heard of him before.
‘Todd’ is your mother, Daffy. Imagine I just said that in a Darth Vader voice, but it’s true.
STOP, IT……….. I can’t take anymore… LOL . Oh, my god I’m rolling on the floor laughing… Tears are running from my eyes… This is pure entertainment, this is hilarious … LMAO….
I do appreciate the comic relief!
so you took away my post. why-scared- i live in wyoming in a one story ranch.
No, I didn’t and no you don’t.
I think the greatest thing that can be said here is: WAY TO GO OREGON!!! Now, if only Washington will follow suit… which is where I had my divorce, by the way, and the horses and dogs were not considered property or livestock.
Property is any physical or intangible entity that is owned by a person or jointly by a group of people or a legal entity like a corporation.[citation needed] Depending on the nature of the property, an owner of property has the right to consume, sell, rent, mortgage, transfer, exchange or destroy it, or to exclude others from doing these things
you are so missleading on what your telling everyone… in Oregon a horse is not only PROPERTY… but can also be considered victims!
I linked you the court submissions and rulings. How is that misleading? For the purposes of crimes against them, they are not property. Read the court submissions.
OK I READ IT.. where did it say that you can not OWN a horse and that a horse was not Property???? it only said that they can be considered Victims….
Nobody said you can’t own a horse. We stated they are not inanimate objects and don’t fall under the usual definition of property. If you want to wreck your car or your kitchen table, nobody cares. If you trash a hotel room, you get charged with trashing a hotel room even though you could have ruined 89 different things and the owner of those `things’ would be the victim. What they are saying is horses are not things. They are sentient beings that are individual victims. So, if you want to abuse your entire herd, you are going to have a whole bunch of charges because you harmed a whole bunch of individual beings whether you OWN them or not. That’s one thing you PSA people have never understood. Just because you own an animal, you do not have a right to abuse it, torture it or neglect it.
What does any of this have to do with Slaughter??????? If USDA goes back into the horse slaughter houses… how does this partan to any of that????? IT DON’T
Partan? It PERTAINS to slaughter because Slaughterhouse Sue and D-Bag Duquette think slaughter is the only answer to abuse and neglect. With the ruling handed down in Oregon, there will be a far stiffer penalty and jail term for abusing and neglecting animals, which will be far more of a deterrent to the idiots that do those things. Slaughter never fixed that before and it wouldn’t now. Also, given the fact of what goes on in a slaughter house, perhaps there can be some charges filed against the UH for what they do to their `NOT property’. It’s a huge decision for animals.
or because there IS a slaughter house close by people will take their horses to it and NOT starve them in the back yard and put a end to abuse and neglect….
You are 100% wrong. People that hoard and abuse animals don’t do it because they can’t slaughter them. They do it because they are mentally ill, crazy assholes that like to exert power and control over something that is vulnerable. If what you are saying is true, then there would have been no abuse, starvation or neglect prior to 2007.
daphne’s back? Excuse me while I go breed my forehead to the wall in a great show of disappointment and frustration.
I’ve spam flagged her and mommy again. I can only take so much of the lunacy.
My wall thanks you. 😛 So does my forehead.
LOL You people are simply so patheticc it is unreal. I live in a “trailer” i also own homes in Pa. and Fl. You mean living in a “trailer” is bad. Wow talk about judging. My 95 year old neighbor lives in a “trailer” also. Ummm Is there something wrong with that . I don’t understand your unintelligent way of thinking!
This is ALSO Daffy’s mommy…..Proud of her trailer. Just so you all know…
I dont know who it is you people think I am.. but your wrong… My name is BJ Johns and I live in Billings Mt… Divorced.. three grown kids.. and I do have a mind and now and then I do like to jump in and say something… and go for it.. flag me or what ever.. but your the ones with the closed minds and think you know everything but yet know little to nothing.. all you seem to do it run your mouths about people and cut them down.. call them everything in the book. So do your best… and see if you can find some of that intelligent way of thinking.
I think you’re doing a pretty good job of showing people what you are, all on your own. 🙂
As you do!!!!!!!!!
I’m so sorry that the odds that you will get to slaughter horses decrease every day………Oh wait, I’m actually not! The taxpayers do not want to pay to clean up the mess that ignorant people have created by further torturing animals. Nor do they want to be the underwriters for Backyard Breeding to start booming again.
A squawking hillbilly?
Why do PSAs always start that “you don’t know anything” crap? You’re the one on the wrong place to expect agreement, especially by saying we know nothing. What do you know that we don’t? How to sign up for 50 different accounts so you can come back after you get thrown our everywhere?
Just incase you miss my earlier post, here’s two reports I just downloaded from the FDA. They pertain to companion animals – cats, dogs, horses. Straight from the FDA.
https://www.box.com/s/dfaea5a89815197ab677
https://www.box.com/s/7574fac721350f2af634
Bye now.
It’s the result of a limited vocabulary, Suzanne.
See if you can find some intelligent way of communicating.
Already tried, especially with Daphne. CANNOT be done.
Actually, Suzanne, I was responding to that Bj what’s her face who said “see if you can find some intelligent way of thinking”. I know communicating with that daffy creature is next to impossible.
Well, whatever. There is a lot of crap written in comments but I live in Oregon and I am pleased to hear this. Anyting to make it little more difficult for Dave to get his slaughter quota (should that ever happen) is fine by me.
D-bag Duquette actively helps and supports animal abusers.
AAs are just misunderstood, up standing citizens that are being beaten down by animal rights nazis with all the financial backing of HSUS and PETA.
Daphne ~ I DO NOT get a tax break on food for my horses! Their food is taxed the same way as my cat and dog food. Companion animals.
As for that last idiotic part of your post – we have discussed this more than once. The BANNED substances are BANNED because they will harm humans. They DO NOT HAVE WITHDRAWAL times in ANY food animal including COWS, PIGS, SHEEP or any other animal eaten by humans. Get that through your head! Banned means DO NOT USE. What the FDA was referring to were drugs like ivermectin which CAN be used in food animals if the withdrawal times are observed. THOSE are the ones that withdrawal times haven’t been tested in horses because there was no reason. Horses are never going to become accepted food animals in the US, so stop bugging the FDA about it. Good Grief.
Do you get the difference now? Banned means NO use in ANY food animal, NO withdrawal times. This includes bute, furicin, omeperazole and others.
For those that CAN be used in food animals like ivermectin and other wormers, the withdrawal times could be established for horses, but it would cost the manufacturers a LOT of money, and horses are NOT food animals and never will be in the US.
suzanne according to my vet who called the FDA, they were given a withdrawl time of 60 days for BUTE. he asked about ahorse that was given bute and was to be used for zoo food, FDA gave him a 60 day withdrawl period for the horse that was given bute. So YES they do have a withdrawl time. and Sorry about your luck, I AM TAX EXEMPT from buying feed, hay, anything that is for my horses or cattle is tax exempt, because I bred, sell and raise LIVESTOCK including horses.
The IRS considers horses livestock therefore unless you are a hobby farm you can be tax exempt on them. Rule is you have to show a profit OR a try of a profit once every 7 yrs to be tax exempt. I have shown a profit the last 3 yrs.
as for The FDA- YES banned but only because they have NOT had it tested for anything. THE only reason why is because they stated they consider them companions. NOT any other reason.
I didn’t bug the FDA, i simple sent them a question and got two answers. BOTh of which were told that ALL DRUGS including BANNED drugs have a withdrawl period.
Daphne ~ You are INSANE. Your vet was NOT asking about HUMANS!!!! Bute is BANNED in any food animal for HUMAN CONSUMPTION!! My GOD!
Bute was tested on humans over 40 years ago when it was licensed to treat arthritis in humans. It was withdrawn for humans because of severe side effects including DEATH. That’s all it takes. The FDA isn’t going to test horses for withdrawal times for bute because NO ONE KNOWS WHAT A SAFE LEVEL IS FOR HUMANS OR HOW LONG IT MIGHT TAKE TO REACH THAT LEVEL EVEN IF IT WERE KNOWN. Is that simple enough?
NO banned drug has a withdrawal time in HUMAN food animals. I thought surely you knew the difference between feeding to another animal and to HUMANS. My mistake.
EU 2013 Regulations for horses, p. 15: http://ec.europa.eu/food/food/chemicalsafety/residues/docs/requirements_non_eu.pdf This IS referring to horse slaughter for HUMAN CONSUMPTION which is the ONLY type of horse slaughter that is in contention. Horse slaughter for NON-HUMAN consumption isn’t and has never been illegal.
The only reason I mentioned I didn’t get a tax break is because you said ALL horses were livestock because, for one thing, you get a tax bread on livestock food. NOT when your horse is a PET you don’t.
Folks, see why I say it’s a waste of time trying to reason with this Daffy? I just am NOT good at suffering fools gladly – especially THIS fool. That’s it, GOOD-BYE, DAPHNE. I won’t say it was fun to know you because it wasn’t.
I’ll stop approving her comments. She has nothing more to add to this conversation other than to go around in circles and ignore the FACTS. I don’t get why there are so mad at anti-slaughter advocates about this issue. We didn’t make the rules. I’ve long said I don’t care a lick if they all want to eat tainted meat and give themselves horrible diseases. I do take issue with sending it overseas and unsuspecting people getting loaded meat AND having them put a ban on all our exports. Anybody remember the whole Mad Cow fiasco?
Oh, don’t shut her down because of me. As long as I don’t bother to answer something from her that I’ve already answered a hundred times, it’s fine.
I do have to say though, that she is THE densest person I’ve ever dealt with. Doesn’t even understand the difference in the precautions taken with human and non-human food! Lord, help!
I guess they have to shoot the messenger because they can’t exactly shoot the FDA. 😉
I sure feel sorry for her kids. What chance do they have?
Good question. I just can’t even imagine!
Can you all grow up and leave children out of this. That is pathetic.
Go away Daffy’s Mom and STOP registering new email accounts so you can post here. Enough already.
We are expressing SYMPATHY for children that have such a weird, uninformed, and dishonest mother. There is nothing wrong with that. We were NOT implying the children were like their mother, although I DO hope they have other adult role models.
I know absolutely nothing about these kids except who and what their mother is. The comments were about HER.
Ah ha! NOW I understand your post, “jeanne.” Sure hope Daffy’s doesn’t have the same influence on HER kids that YOU did on her!.
I think Daffy may be her own cousin.
Seems quite possible to me.
[…] also know that Oregon doesn’t exactly agree that horses are strictly `property’ either (https://shedrowconfessions.wordpress.com/2012/08/04/great-news-from-oregon-property-rights-and-horses/). It’s ok, Holy One, I don’t expect you to back up your talk with actual […]