Now that everybody is good and mad about the last few day’s posts, I think it’s time for some good news. A few things that have happened over the past few days that are big ups for the anti-slaughter movement. Lots of stuff going on in Ohio and it’s all good news. Well, it’s not great news that asstards like the ones we are about to talk about exist, but it is great news that they are getting busted and I’m sure there will be more stories like this in the near future. Our PSA buddies better read up because this is decidedly bad news for many of them. It is especially bad news for those that have a very hard time with telling the truth *cough*mostofthem*cough*
First up, let’s talk about Ronald Andio of Canfield, Ohio. He’s a kill buyer. He bought 769 horses at auction in 2010 according to Ohio Department of Agriculture public documents. That’s a lot of horses! Andio is known to deal directly with the Viande Richelieu slaughter plant in Massueville, QC. It seems that Andio, like most PSAs is a great big fat liar and he just got busted. Astonishingly, he got busted for lying on an EID document and having drug residue show up in a horse he had presented for slaughter as safe for human consumption. Oops. In a letter from the FDA, dated July 9, 2012, Andio was issued a warning. It seems Rotten Ronnie presented a horse for slaughter and wrote on the EID that the horse in question had not been given any banned substance for at least 180 days prior this his purchase of the animal. Upon investigation by the FDA, Andio admitted that he just signed the producer’s name on the EID without ever actually inquiring as to the medication status of the animal. When the animal was eventually slaughtered, his tissues were tested by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and were found to be positive for both Bute and Clenbuterol. Imagine that! (http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/2012/ucm313462.htm) Andio was also warned about holding animals under conditions at were “so inadequate that medicated animals bearing potentially harmful drug residues are likely to enter the food supply”. What a great guy! How unsurprising that a kill buyer is dishonest…
There are a few important things to point out about Andio’s situation. Even though he basically buys horses at sales and flips them to the meat buyer in Canada as quickly as possible, he was the one that falsified the document and when that animal showed up with drugs in his system, it traced directly back to the lie he told. Also, these positive tests on this particular animal are a completely separate issue than the recent one reported where drug residue was found in meat shipped to Belgium this year. We are still waiting to hear where that traces back to. This was, without a doubt an American horse so that pretty much kills the PSA argument that it’s Mexico’s or Canada’s problem and they aren’t so worried about tainted meat being found. Lastly, you will notice on the document linked above, that the tissues tested to produce the positive results were the kidneys for Bute and the eye for Clenbuterol. That pretty much wipes out Slaughterhouse Sue’s claim that her slaughter plants are going to test for these drugs PRIOR to slaughter to ensure safety and compliance. Unless she plans to poke an eye out and do kidney biopsies on each and every horse slaughtered, it was just another lie she told to get what she wants.
Now that we have discussed Rotten Ronnie getting spanked by the FDA, let’s talk about one of his favorite haunts. The Sugarcreek Livestock Auction in Ohio is run by Leroy Baker jr. Ole Leroy is a real prince of a man. He’s racked up about $170,000 in USDA fines over the past few years mostly for transportation violations. Allegedly, he has yet to make any significant attempt to pay any of these fines. His auction is generally considered to be a little shop of horrors for the animals that have the misfortune to be brought there. Watch this video from Animal Angels and see what a normal sale day at Sugarcreek is like: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5fxnTeEPYc). Anyhow, it seems that Leroy has been busted yet again. This time he is in trouble for not having his books straight and not paying out what he should. The result is he’s got another $10,000 fine he probably will never pay and a 21 day suspension for good measure. Starting August 19th, Leroy has about 3 weeks to get his accounts in order and prove that his current liabilities do not exceed his current assets. We can only pray that this death camp remains closed for good. (http://www.gipsa.usda.gov/Newrelease/2012/21312SugarcreekLSDec.pdf)
I guess none of you will be all that surprised to know that one of our favorite PSAs is absolutely outraged about this situation. Yup, seems like Daffy Daphne Watson is a huge supporter of Leroy Baker’s. She is on a rampage about these latest developments.
“ITs ppl like the Ar’s and the EZ’s that are ruining this horse world. I had made a phone call to a sale barn to warn them about something. Yes a group were talking about staging an event to cause problems, and turn horses loose. Anyhow when i called, I was told that they were shut down for 3 weeks. NOW for the Ar’s and Ez’s that are trolling here, let me tell you this- I PERSONNALLY know this person and IF you all would stop causing problems you would see that he is a good guy. JUST because he is a kill buyer doesn’t mean crap- He buys horses and sends them back to his farm to be looked at by a college student that rides hroses, those horses he resells later privatly, Yep his sale barn can be odd IF you have never been their before. RULE of the thumb you bring ahorse in and just unload and leave, it goes directly tot he kill pens, IF it has a halter and you are there, then lead it through avoid the problem. HE IS NOT the cause of the horses there, its the owners that bring the horses in , in the condition they are in(from skinny, to injuried and yet he gets the blame. ).”
– It is reported that at least 95% of the horses that run through that auction go directly to slaughter and Leroy buys many of them himself. Of course, now that Daffy has given him her personal stamp of approval, we should just disregard all the reports and investigations into this place we have seen (some examples linked below). I want those of you that haven’t already, go look at the video I linked above and tell me that this is a great place run by a caring person. Just like Mendy Tobiano, the most abusive and ignorant of the PSAs always tell you what great guys the kill buyers are becausae they are nice to kids. For the last time…..bring kids into the issue all you want and I’m still not going to change my opinion. In fact, I may just think their parents are great big assholes for consorting with kill buyers. Stop it already.
“From what he told me today, 2 of the claims are completly false.
YEp the Ez’s, and AR’s think they won by getting him shut down for 3 weeks, NOPE you just made it worse for the horses in that area, who will NOW have to be hauled to the next nearest sale barn which is a good 3 to 4 hr trip. YEP pat yourselves on the back, YOU REALLY just made it worse then better. again HE IS NOT THE PROBLEM, The owners are.”
– I’m guessing that Daffy is oblivious to the fact that this is just the tip of the iceberg. With the internet and social media, these types of places cannot just hide in the shadows and perpetuate their cruelty and abuse any longer. The general public are sickened by what goes on in these places and there will be more shut down before it’s all over. Yes, the owners that drop horses off at places like this are asstards too, but he is responsible for what goes on in his sale barn and it is horrific. He claims he’s innocent on two of the claims? I wonder what he says about the other $170,000 fines he’s racked up. I hear prison is full of innocent people too.
Leroy `Killer’ Baker in the middle
So, what have we learned today? We have learned that the people involved in horse slaughter are less than honorable and really only care about the money in their pockets. This falls right in line with how often we catch our regular PSAs in blatant lies. They can’t all be just ignorant, some are just outright liars and truly evil. Nobody that cares about animals would ever get into this line of work. I guess we already pretty much knew this. These two men are the exact type of people that took poor Montana to his death and said he would be well cared for and not suffer. Does anybody other than his asswipe of an owner actually still believe that? More importantly, we have learned that little by little, we are winning this battle. With people like Animal Angels out there to report and document what goes on, the USDA cannot ignore it any longer. I can’t even imagine how horrific it is for them to have to be a witness to the cruelty and abuse they report on, but I respect their efforts more than I can ever say. Keep up the good work everybody….slow and steady will win this race.
Shedrow Confessions 
wait, are you saying that that people who would fraudulently sign documents or break the law would lie? c’mon now shedrow, thats a stretch even for you. these are just good, honest, hard working men trying to make a living. rolls eyes…. i cant even type that with a straight face. i wonder if montana ended up with this leroy bastard… poor horse it really says something about the kind of person you are when complete strangers mourn you horse more than you do…
as i am sure daffy cant resist reading every blog entry, i would like to ask her why does the blame go to anyone but the man (and i use that term loosely – real men are kind to animals) who broke the law?
since shes been banned, i am not sure how she can answer. it would probably be some sort of paranoid gibberish anyway.
it is obvious the psas you have profiled are just bad people. they have no problem lying when it suits them, they go out of their way to excuse cruelty if they can benefit from it.further they cannot stand up and take responsibility for their own choices and actions. they are always playing the victim. they are intellectually dishonest and somehow they believe that they should be above the law.
Daffy is just mad she can’t go buy some more crap to breed at her favorite haunt. As for Montana, I’m just sick about the entire situation. Yes, complete strangers are far more upset about what happened to him than the person that claimed to love him. But she’s all good. Pumping out kids at an alarming rate, picking up her welfare check and getting custom made tack while doing business with SOSER the slaughter supporting rescue. Great!
i dunno… seems legit. 😛
OK, so LeRoy and Rotten Ronnie got shut down a little early. Their slaughter game will be over this time next year anyway. Then what are the PSAs going to do? We can expect to hear them crying foul because the value of their excess has vanished completely. Then they will blame the EU for not buying their junk science that says drugs in horse meat are no problem.
Do you think they will ever discover the realities of supply and demand? We have lots of horses in this country and not nearly an many riders as we need. Good horsemen can create more horses, more riders, or both. Looks to me like now (or a few years back) would be the perfect time to concentrate on ways to create more riders and cut back on the horse creation. A horse giving a few lessons every week can support himself. Two kids who can’t afford to own, can share a lease and turn an unwanted horse into one that is wanted times two.
you do understnd diana that leroy sells other livestock as well, yep he is a KB, but he runs a SALE BARN. he is NOT shut down, he is basiclaly suspended and will reopen when the time is up. I guess you think its ok for someone an AR to ruin his truck in 100 degree tx heat? thank god there were no livestock or horses in there when it happened.
We understand his suspension and we understand why he got it. We also understand the man owes $170,000 in fines and he’s either going to pay it or stay shut down. Whatever the reason he is currently under suspension is good news for the animals that he regularly abuses at his establishment.
daphne:
What does your anecdotal TX truck story have to do with suspension of operations for this purveyor of equine hell, contaminated meat and overall douche that has been found repeatedly in violation and either can’t or won’t pay his fines (cookin’ his books, stealing from creditors and consignors)?
Don’t bother to answer; it’s rhetorical…..another PSAs disconnect of logic and lack of reasoning.
p.s. plz provide copy of police report w/ forensic investigation results that anyone, much more an “animal rights” vandalized a Baker truck in TX.
p.s.s. the scum KBs don’t feed, water, rest or care about their truck contents and their trucks are some of the most poorly maintained in the US…get some lying, unlicensed asshat driving that truck and anything can happen.
What a dumbass! and you can call them livestock till the cows come home; doesn’t make them a qualified meat source…double dumbass.
Of course that assumes that the meat is going in fact for human consumption, and not other uses correct? So by your reasoning, every single horse slaughtered must be going for human consumption? Although admittedly, human consumption is by far the leading use, there are in fact other legitimate uses of horse meat, where the drugs we give our horses are not a consideration. Additionally, if you are so opposed you should be glad all those horse meat eating folks do get poisoned by the meat and die so that would be one less consumer right? All about supply and demand. Why don’t you carry your happy ass down to the slaughter plants in Mexico and picket in front of their business. I am sure you could draw plenty of donations to send your happy ass down there. I am sure we would only need a 1 way ticket.
What is your point?
Slaughtering animals has been around ever since man forgot how to hunt his own food, and would rather pay someone else to do it for him.. Why don’t you jump on the band-wagon to prevent all the other animal injustices in other countries, like killing dogs for meat, or seahorses (on the endangered list btw) all the other animal atrocities, that are far more cruel and offensive then slaughtering horses, cattle, sheep, pigs. You can not and never will be able to prevent the buying and shipping of horses destined for slaughter across our borders. You can not and never will be able to control what any other country does within their borders. Your energy could be better used in other endeavors, where you might actually stand a snow balls chance in hell of accomplishing something positive. However, seems to me you would rather waste your time blowing smoke out your ass over something you can’t control. 🙂
Wow, you’re pretty misinformed, aren’t you? With your defeatist attitude it’s no wonder you’re so bitter. I will concentrate on cleaning up my immediate area before I start worrying about other countries. In THIS country we don’t slaughter horses right now. I’m going to keep working so that it never happens here again because that is what I choose to do. So far those efforts have not been wasted. What is a waste is somebody like you coming over to an anti-slaughter blog and thinking your little hissy fit is going to change a single person’s mind. The only thing you are doing is proving what sort of stupid it takes to just throw your hands up and say you can’t fix something, so why bother trying. If everybody had that attitude, we’d still be living in caves and not invented the wheel yet.
Good gravy….so has slavery, cruelty, greed, etc.
p.s STFU…you are stoooooopid.
p.s.s. posts are jumping SRC.
My post above was for Tititina…
tina,
oh my god…that was such an original, well thought out, completely fact supported argument that i have changed my mind. did you come up with that comment all by yourself?
you must be an experiment in artificial stupidity.
Take your happy slaughter face 🙂 and stick it up your ass instead of US horses’ and burros’.
As to blowing smoke, you make Cheech and Chong look like pikers.
Dumbass. Moron. Stupid. Uneducated. Idiot.
p.s. the conversation here is equines and the US. As to not stopping bad things? Thank God, somebody stopped Hitler, slavery, Pol Pot, etc, etc, etc.
Did I mention stupid?.
What is your point? I’m still trying to figure out who she is talking to, what she knows about statistical exported US horseflesh, economics of same and a whacko comment about poisoned consumers. The perfect poster child for how fuck’d up our food system is comes to mind.
Why does she get supply and demand at the end of equine lives (which is bogus) and not the beginning of them?
As to the travel tour to Mexico, I suggest we get this asshat’s address and send her a special equine postcard…..Buy American. Stay American. Right?
Tina ~ The horses ARE going for human consumption. That’s what the
EU is buying them for. There has never been any question about that – read their regulations, for heaven’s sake!
This ENTIRE 30 year’s fight has been about horses for human consumption. There is no other market. Didn’t you post that yourself? Slaughtering horses for non-human consumption is not illegal and never has been, The anti-slaughter laws we are supporting apply to human consumption horse slaughter ONLY. Non-human consumption horse slaughter will not be affected one way or the other. You need to do a LOT more research before you shoot off your ignorant mouth again.
American pet food companies no longer use horse meat, and more and more zoos and circuses are getting away from it as well because they feel their animals do better on beef.
The fact that our horses are not fit for anything to eat is one reason WHY we are opposed – and speaking of insults! Who could possibly top the crap you just posted? We WANT people to die because they ate our horses? You are one sick puppy.
AMEN!
Good Will Eventually Triumph Over Evil!
God Is Watching And Listening!
Rest Assured There Will Be A Reckoning Of Accountability By God For Being Lukewarm, As Well As GOOD And EVIL!
We Must Chose Wisely With A Godly Heart And Godly Wisdom!
Rest In Peace Precious Creations Of God, ALL You Noble Equines!
Trust That We Are Fighting On Behalf Of ALL Equines And That Your Suffering And Death Will Not Go Unavenged!
Know That You Will Never Be Forgotten And You Are Loved By Many Good Humans!
We Will See You At The Rainbow Bridge When God Calls Us Home To Heaven!
AMEN!
maybe her last friend is the kill-buyer? also maybe she should spend more time reading the dictionary instead of defending these people. stupid people have no business owning/selling/breeding horses, since they cant behave responsibly. they shouldnt be breeding horses or themselves, now that i think of it.
also ive been wondering today, why didnt anyone try and stop asswipe marshall? in the HFA group. since she was talking about it before.
why would they? the see nothing wrong with what she did.
Because they think situations like this actually helps their position. It actually just proves that not a single one of them have an ounce of compassion and nobody in their right mind would believe that any of them give a crap about animal welfare and humane treatment. In other words, they are a bunch of greedy irresponsible liars. They are nothing if not transparent.
They are transparent, all right. Unfortunately, that’s all they are. Still, it works for us – but, sadly, not for the poor horses that have the misfortune to become involved – through NO fault of their own – with these brainless knuckle walkers, because these slime balls lack a heart as well as a brain.
They say that what goes around, comes around. Let’s hope so!
ha https://www.facebook.com/angela.marshall.714/photos look at her page. her pictures are now ‘copyrighted’ in case anyone wants to steal pictures of her stupid asswipey face.
I’ve seen all I need to see. She lives in squalor she hoards animals and nothing looks to be overly well cared for other than herself.
i see that she put a baby on a horse. and that she spends more on tack than horse care.
Yup, proudly shows off her new tack (which arrived soon after her horse was sent to slaughter), her soon to be indoor arena, which is really just a quonset, so that will takes some cash to get the surface in. Any pictures of the inside of her house shows absolute filth and clutter, but she just keeps on getting more animals and pumping out kids. She’s `at peace’ with what she did.
Another fun fact about this monster is that she doesn’t believe in chemical euthanasia for any of her animals. I wonder if that means she shoots her dogs or maybe she just breaks their necks or something.
According to her, she must be the only person in her state that has ever had a large animal die or had to put one down. She NEVER had the vet look at this poor horse. She never did a single thing to help him other than take the word of her idiot shoer. For all we know the biggest problem the horse may have had was a hot nail. The `spur’ she keeps talking about was probably an overgrowth of the hoof. We had a racehorse injure it’s coronet band and it grew this spike off it’s foot ever after. You take a hoof knife and trim it off. It caused no pain or issues whatsoever. She was never interested in helping this horse. 14 yrs isn’t that old. He should have had years ahead of him. He certainly deserved better for putting up with her big ignorant ass so long…
*rant over* This is why I shouldn’t talk about this creature anymore
i am not sure how that would affect the fair use of these photos. fair use seems to provide for “criticism” of work as well as a requirement for citing where the piece came from.
it just makes me mad when she puts up a picture of herself pretending to hug the horse- like does she think that makes her look like she gives a shit?it just makes her look more cold-hearted and cruel. people shouldnt hug their horse and then send it too the slaughterhouse. its just beyond hypocritical.and if she knows rescues, why not ask for help? like all PSA s they are only interested in exchanging misery for money.if she cant afford to pay for vet visits, why the f— is she having kids? too stupid to live,
If they can afford the attorney they can file a lawsuit. The fair usage laws have more to do with not profiting from their pictures, so I couldn’t put them in a book without permission. Fair use has nothing to do with privacy. They give up their privacy by posting them on Facebook. By watermarking them, they just absolve the rest of us for having to give them their citation. Really quite silly of them, isn’t it?
I’d bet she wouldn’t know how to copyright ANYTHING anyway.
Watermark is not necessarily copyright and all the infringement protection afford to the latter.
Idiots.
I’m going to keep on, keeping on. If they want to name themselves by stamping their name all over pics, that’s just fine. I just know the fair usage laws and I’m not violating any of them. If you want your stuff private, do not post it in the open. Period. They are so deeply silly.
shedrow – thats kinda what i was thinking. you are not “profiting” from this page and most of the intellectual (and in this case that term is used very loosely) property laws are about not claiming a work as your own or not profiting from its use.
i always get a kick out of them crying “defamation”, if you support slaughter how is acknowledging that you do defamation?
Having an opinion is not defamation. Nor is quoting people or illustrating how stupid they are. If that was the case, we wouldn’t have newspapers or magazines. That’s the real world and if you put yourself out there, not everybody is going to think you are awesome. Time for all of them to grow up.
Bakers accts were attached by the USDA last year in garnishment because of his failure to pay his fines. AA does a great job, however some of the more recent wins and information gathered has been by private citizens. Ayache being shut down was accomplished thru private citizens filing reports, the nurse mare foals at Cattletsburg KY hellhole was exposed by Lucas Farm. Who has helped save several of the just weeks old foals.
The PSAs are going to have to wake up and smell the coffee, start working with us to make sure laws are enforced regarding abuse and neglect, instead of protecting the abusers
I wouldn’t hold your breath for those people to ever work with anybody to enforce the abuse laws. Like you said, if they aren’t the abusers, they are protecting them. They just won’t be able to hide them anymore.
Thanks for this a ray of light at the end of the dreadful slaughter tunnel!! I would love to see what you do with an expose on Andi “My Daddy was a Mustanger” Harmon!
That old bag is more pathetic than anything. But her turn will come…
I look forward to that maybe include her lackeys Tony (trapper) Ullrich, Janet Schultz and a few others, they are overdue to an expose.
Oh yes! I had to end up banning Andi from my FaceBook page because I got sick of her continual posting the most asinine posts imaginable and expecting me to answer. Enough is enough.
Ah Laura, Posting under your Maiden name?? isnt that sweat.. now many accounts and names do you really have?? Please feel free to come talk about us. I would hope of course that when you do, you will fully talk about the damage being done to the advocacy by an inexperienced self proclaimed expert. who in less than 3 years has done more damage to the advocacy then any one else in its history.. you dont seem to understand, its not the advocacy we are exposing( I actually think the advocacy is needed) but the people in the advocacy that seem to think with little time and knowledge about horses they know better than those that have been doing this for years… The lawsuits you file against the advise of people who know better are doing nothing to help the horses. and seem to be directed at one goal and that is to keep your name in the public eye so that you can beg for donations that also do nothing to help the horses. but sure seem to keep you in hotels, smoking, drinking coffee, getting your hair color done, I can keep going, but please feel free to come talk to me.. Or have your readers stop by this group and see how even the advocates dont approve.. https://www.facebook.com/groups/357546447652544
No you pathetic moron, that is what makes you a bunch of jokers you cant even get your conspiracy theories right LOL
Tony, don’t you have some magazines to get out? I hear the people you took money from are getting kinda pissed off they don’t have the product yet…
Hell, your misspellings and excessive communication and punctuation errors make it impossible to figure out exactly what you’re whining about. Use spell check, for goodness sakes. No wonder your silly magazine isn’t doing well.
I bet the magazine subscribers wish Tony was half at good at communicating with them as he apparently is at spending inordinate amounts of time investigating random peeps on Facebook. Too bad you can’t package that up in a magazine and sell it eh Tony?
I don’t know anything about Laura, but if this Tony person is putting out a magazine, i bet it is going to be quite entertaining. Especially with the attention to minor details like spelling and grammar that he demonstrates. Truly impressive. I bet your copy editor has their hands full.
I think he’s a one man show AND it’s all about wild horses even though he doesn’t know much about horses at all. Yes he’s pro slaughter but says his magazine is neutral. Just more hilarity from the PSA crowd
To whom are you referring, Tony? Exactly WHO is it that doesn’t know anything about horses? You?
Anyone watching the cluster fuck with Rep Todd Akin? Talk about stooopid!…and arrogant….and with plenty of denial of facts. BTW, his apology doesn’t deny what he said….a woman’s body biologically and naturally fights impregnation when “really” raped. Sounds like the kind of science that the PSAs use to defend their positions.
Wanna bet this asswipe supports HCHS…he’s a politician from Missouri, right? I’m not a fan of HSUS, but understand their contribution. HSUS has a real hard on for Missouri (puppy mills, etc).
It was Senator Blount (MISSOURI, AGAIN!) that did the backroom appropriations bill “reconciling” that pulled the defunding horse slaughter inspection language from the Ag Bill. It was THREE, just 3 fucktards that made that decision; Senators Blount and Kohl (WI), and Rep Kingston (GA).
As to Rep Akin, he is running against incumbent Claire McCaskill (D-MO)…but I’m not sure she is any better with regard to Big Ag and HCHS.
But, BOY! is this guy scary dumb. There are many like him in Congress right now.
There are good people in Missouri, but they are pretty hard to find. What I have seen come out of that state lately is nothing less than scary and that includes one of my in-laws.
Of course there are good people in Missouri….I think it was Cynthia MacPherson (attorney) of Missouri that slapped the shit out of the folks, including Suey regarding the slaughter house plans for equines in MO. And in fact, as part of her beat down, she helped a decent, local tradesman (HVAC?) file an injunction/a lien against the scum trying to open it. As the legal system has become nothing but an indulgence for the rich (sadly), I was very pleased to hear she had made the legal system recognize the compensation due to the refrigeration/HVAC guy.
I’m just sayin’….these are the trolls (Akin, Blount, King, Kohl, etc) in extremely high positions of credibility, control, influence and legislation controlling OUR futures and resources…..AND THEY ARE BATSHIT CRAZY AND MORALLY CORRUPT.
Akin is a truly scary man. I hope if I’m ever raped it’s legitimate rape because he makes that sound so much better!
src:
Look, I understand there are degrees when it comes to the law and legal definition…..but the pseudo-batshit biological science this ahole pulls out of his ahole, err brain….is just plain fucking scary and STOOOPID!
It is so bad (and there are many more in his mindset and Congressional company that are not being called out), that even Romney and others are more than distancing themselves….some have called for him to withdraw and we all know how bad the bad guys are trying to control the House of Lords, aka Senate.
I still will place a wager that he is a certified, bona fide horse killer, puppy miller, Ag at all costs HAG….I know how he stands on women. Anyone got quotes or votes regarding children? I bet he is a pip.
Doesn’t Akin’s statement sound like something a psa would say? It amazes me that someone that stupid is in congress and if there is one there are many more. Jack Kingston is somebody’s do-boy. He doesn’t even own horses. He is a hairy wart on the ass of Georgia. I wish he would move to Wyoming.
They think they should all be contained to one or two states.
“There were approx 100 horses for sale, many of them were pregnant and several were limping. Baker had 22 horses in his kill pen and some pregnant ones had already been tagged for slaughter. All horses were sold in 30 minutes with Baker buying most of them. The moving of the horses to the auction ring remains a major concern; investigators saw multiple horses slip, fall or being trampled by others. The Amish workers hit them in the face with full force, causing panic and confusion. Yelling, kicking and the loud banging on the wooden pens add to the agitation. One horse went down in the alley and was trampled by the rest. Our requests to address the situation were ignored.” Animals Angels investigation Jan 2011
This is what Daffy is defending? Speaks volumes.
Diana:
They (the killers) CANNOT defend it….that is why they lie or refuse to get informed.
Bigger problem is the regulators and law enforcers that look or quibble away…they are the ones that allow this to continue.
Off topic and to all…but I find the “holding” (180 days?) a FUCKING hoot and tragedy. It has NOTHING to do with drugs that are completely banned after one use, regardless of their euphemistic “holding” fairytale.
Sure does, Denise. About HER.
In the CHDC report for the Petit Nations slaughterhouse, there were photos of 61 EIDs. Of these, 27 were signed off by Baker. The full report can viewed here: http://defendhorsescanada.org/investigations/pasture-to-plate
Pro-slaughters would like to give everyone the impression that you can just stick a litmus paper up a horse’s ass in the feedlot and you’ll get either a negative or positive result for drugs. The irony is that the pro-slaughters themselves are accomplishing as much if not more than animal welfare advocates to bring down horse slaughter by virtue of their stupidity, greed, and incompetence. Chavez, Baker, Saulters, Ayache, et al and now this Andio dude. I have to give the USDA some credit here though – when this happens in Canada, the charges and paltry fines are usually dismissed – when was the last time you read of horses DROWNING on a feedlot? It happened at Bouvry’s feedlot in Shelby MT – http://lists.envirolink.org/pipermail/ar-news/Week-of-Mon-20031027/008997.html
I’ve often thought the same thing, Heather. With their very actions and words, they’re doing more to speak out against slaughter than we are. And they’re FOR it!
You are so right about everything you just said…they are nothing but a bunch of buffoons.
I have frequented this sale all my life and Baker is NOT repeat, NOT the one to place sole blame on. Leroy Baker runs a BUSINESS yes people, horses are a business, and contrary to some beliefs they are livestock not pets. I have owned horses all my life, one in particular from the time she was orphaned at 9wks til her death at age 29yrs so I know the bond between horse and owner. I am a horse lover but without places like Sugarcreek we will become over run with horses that have no where to go, that no one wants or can afford. So until these self-righteous groups agree to take on every unwanted horse I think they should back off the sale barns and focus on stopping reproduction of these animals. Lets start capping the amount of mares a sire can cover, that means all breeds across the board. I dont think we will ever see that happening because it doesn’t hold the same visual as a horse auction and people won’t respond accordingly, lets not forgot that the almighty dollar will be involved as well. Places like Sugarcreek are vital in liquidating excess horse flesh, I am shocked to see the condition of some of the horses if not most of the horses, but again that is not Bakers fault. As for how the horses are run through, I do believe more care needs to be taken in that area, but does that mean he has to be shut down, I don’t think so.
very well said i agree
carsue ~ I hope to God you don’t really own horses.
Why is it that everybody thinks anti-slaughter people are responsible to clean up everybody’s mess? Baker is 100% responsible for the conditions at his business and I completely disagree that there is anything vital about his chamber of horrors. How about putting the horses down at home? How about not stuffing them in pens where some are trampled to death or horribly injured? How about not being part of the slaughter pipeline. If he cared even a little bit about animal welfare he wouldn’t do the things he does.
how about running a business without breaking the effing law?? as much as i wish it was the conditions of his sale barn that was enough to get someone attention, he hasnt been shut down for those conditions. he was shut down for breaking the law. it would see, that he was paying his personal bills instead of paying the sellers. i guess that sort of unethical behavior is ok though – anything is acceptable as long as we keep the horses a slaughterin’…
how about running a business without breaking the effing law? he may not have a thing to do with hpw horses look when they get to his barn, bur he does have control over whether or not he breaks the law. as much as i wish it was the conditions of his sale barn that was enough to get someone attention, he hasnt been shut down for those conditions. he was shut down for breaking the law. it would see, that he was paying his personal bills instead of paying the sellers. i guess that sort of unethical behavior is ok though – anything is acceptable as long as we keep the horses a slaughterin’…good lord, does anyone involved in slaughter believe in personal responsibility – or is it all about shifting the blame around?
Yeah. He ought to be shut down. For good.
Miranda, calling horses livestock doesn’t make them food animals. You don’t use slaughter as a disposal service. It serves one purpose and that’s food production. Any animal that is not raised and regulated as a food animal should NEVER enter the food chain.
Why do you think anyone but the owner is responsible for caring for their horse? Horse slaughter is nothing but another government welfare program. Your comment validate this. Why should everyone’s tax dollars go for inspections, law enforcement, litigation, transport programs, wastewater clean-up and on and on so the owners of less than 2% of the horse population can get a government hand-out at our expense?
Responsible owners set aside a few hundred dollars so if they can’t care for their horse, can’t place it or sell their horse, they can provide a humane death.
You ever hear about “euthanasia?” NO Ever hear of “responsibility?” NO If these people – PSAs, feed lot owners, ANY of them in the slaughter pipeline gave a rat’s ass about what happens to these horses, the conditions would NOT be what they are. Besides, I think we have heard more than enough about all the “unwanted” horses – THAT Big Lie has worn out it’s welcome everywhere.
YOU have no idea of what the “horse-human bond” is like. You don’t have a clue, if you can defend this parasite. Tell me, even if your statement that feed lots are necessary were true, would there have to be all the cruelty, abuse and lack of any concern at all? NO.
Another thing you PSAs can’t seem to get through your heads is that the OWNERS of these horses are responsible for their ending up in a feed lot. If these scum didn’t have a near-by feed lot they just might avail themselves of more humane options. And, they might think twice about acquiring another horse. Or, if they were arrested like they should be, maybe they would be banned from getting another horse. The feed lots, like slaughter itself are enablers – perpetuating the same cruelty year after year.
BTW, don’t you know that the FDA classifies horses as “companion animals?” That’s why their meds and many other products are permitted to contain ingredients that are banned for any use in any food animal.
“BTW, don’t you know that the FDA classifies horses as “companion animals?” That’s why their meds and many other products are permitted to contain ingredients that are banned for any use in any food animal.”
This is where they put their fingers in their ears and go “La La La La La LIVESTOCK!”
If you go to this url (a picture of Tweety) you will see my new philosophy.
These creeps are criminals and need to be prosecuted. I am posting this crap about them everywhere that I can find.. Are the going to make passports for 700+ horses a year. In one year those will be required.. Maybe the ban on horse slaughter will be in place to save them from prison… I truly am FED UP!
Tweety should be the banner for this blog LOL. I’m pretty much sick and tired of these people too.
I hope so, polo, I hope so.
We all are….
And more good news: Copied from the North American TB aftercare Coalition. Thank you to everyone who stepped up for these two. You made a difference and set precedent. Awesome job!
Cactus Cafe and Canuki, Two Thoroughbreds Saved From the Slaughter Plant
.by North American Thoroughbred Aftercare Coalition on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 at 8:44pm ·.North American Thoroughbred Aftercare Coalition is so very pleased to announce the group has secrued the purchase of Cactus Cafe and Canuki. As everyone remembers, we had secured these horses homes and they disappeared from Beulah Park Race Track several months ago. Within days we tracked the horses to the Canadian slaughter plant. Due to our members work, as well as the support and work of Joe Deluca, Head Racing Steward at Beualah Park, the horses were pulled from the slaughter line due to the medication history. They were released at that time back to the owner of record.
Many have asked in PMs about the horses and we, as a group were unable to release any information, however we have been working every day to secure these two horses. There was not a day that went by where we did not think about, discuss, and or make attempts to secure the safety of these two horses. CC & C, in essence had become “Our” horses. We will be looking for forever homes for both horses and and adoption contract will be required. The horses were rescued at great hardship and personal funds where used to secure the release of the horses. More information will be forthcoming, but I can assure you we, Mary Johnson, Stacy Ferris, Becky Care, Mindy Lovell, Syb Miller, Katherine Wheeler, Doris McQuiddy, Michelle Balinger and myself, Jo-Claire Corcoran are doing the happy dance. We hope you will join us in that dance.
.
That’s very good news. I look forward to more updates on them. I can’t even imagine what it took to get them back after they were already at the plant. That just never happens.
Those horses had a few things going for them:
(1) people (owner, trainer,others?) that not only cared, but were outraged about their disappearance;
(2) identification (lip tattoo)
(3) a documented/hard copy medical history that showed they had been given banned substances.
The kill plant had no other choice.
And I thought Canada said they weren’t going to accept US TBs any longer?
I thought these two horses were kinda the straw that broke the camel’s back as far as rejecting Thoroughbreds. The kill plant isn’t doing that to be kind, they just know that 99.99999% of tattooed TBS will have been given banned substances.
Denise, these horses did not have breeders, trainers etc who wanted them back. what they did have were homes to go to before they were whisked away from the track and sold to slaughter. They were saved because we, our group, NAMTAC , never gave up and never quit on them. They were saved because we were able to prove their medication histories to the plant. They were saved because one member stepped up to the plate with the funds to secure the safety.
As a result, 3 plants are now refusing to buy identifiable thoroughbreds.
Jo-Claire:
I didn’t say breeders. I said “PEOPLE” (owners, trainers, etc “?” please note my question mark)… but thank you for clarifying that it was primarily your group and a few others (Beulah Park steward) that made this happen. I have read many versions of this story (some by people that absolutely had no first hand knowledge).
As shedrowconfessions speculated, it was these 2 TBs that resulted in a nonacceptance policy of US TBs at this (all???) Canadian horse slaughter plant(s). Is that correct? Three plants?…how many are in Canada?
And as I said, they had tattoos and an iron clad medical treatment record. I know people like to hate the racing industry, but you have to give them credit for requiring permanent id and official drug reporting; sadly this doesn’t happen for every TB born into the race game.
Caring about this kind of situation often means spending money.
Believe it or not, Jo-Claire, I’m on your side of this issue. I also wonder what the TB industry is going to do now that some/all plants in Canada aren’t going to accept identifiable US TBs…I shudder to think about IDs being disfigured and/or heading south.
The TB industry, more than any other breed works hard to keep their horses out of the slaughter pipeline. They have many dedicated rescues and rehab programs that are well supported by the industry and now an aftercare program. Not perfect, but they do try harder than most.
SRC:
Well it sure in the hell takes a lot mo’ money to get started in the race game, not to mention even staying competitive at the mid to high end levels….it’s not for the poor and they don’t call it the Sport of Kings for nothin’. The poor are the grooms, hot walkers, majority of jocks, et al….and the industry needs to do much like set aside a small percentage of every sales, purse and betting/handle for after care and humane euthanasia….sort of like a welfare escrow account. I know the low end of the game can get really scuzzy and seedy.
I thought the harness folks were known to be decent, but realize many of their horses go to the Amish and other buggy cultures.
The harness industry is in trouble all over though. Although they do try and raise awareness for second careers for those horses. They really are nice horses too. Most of them have great minds and the old style `jughead’ isn’t so much anymore.
So happy that you have saved them… We are hopefully on the road to changing the laws, then prosecuting people who break them.
fortunately The EU companies that sell horsemeat are strangely enough going to be on our side. The requirements for passports for horses slaughtered for human consumption will be so much more difficult to falsify, that many of these men that daffy Daffy supportswill be out of business or in jail. I like that VERY MUCH. sorry Daffy.. You’ve tried BLM, horse slaughter, maybe find a new disgusting cause.
Polopaula she has already, it is called Mustang advocate bashing with no proven facts.
Any mustang advocate called onto the carpet, for misleading for profit and using the people who love horses for their own profit, is completely backed by facts and with the knowledge and support of many who have been in the slaughter and wild horse and burro for so much longer than those who cry foul whilst hiding their exposed ass. More information comes in every day – not surprising. Care to reveal who you really are Ms. Schmidt?
I am exactly who I say I am although I am honored that you would think that I was Laura, that just shows what a pathetic bunch of morons you all are. LOL.
no leroy baker supporters want to explain to me how he was “forced” to break the law? no one wants to explain how its wasnt his choice to comply or not comply legally? anyone want to connect the dots to show how animal rights activists caused him to act unethically?
Hell, the animal rights people or whomever they are blaming for this today, had nothing to do with him getting busted at all. I guess they can’t read and assume that he got busted for the way he handled animals….that, alone, speaks volumes. Doesn’t mean that anybody that cares about animals isn’t pretty damn happy this guy is going to get run out of the business though…
i realize it was too much to hope for to think that a psa would *actually* acknowledge that this guy broke the law of his own volition. i was just curious about what sort of tinfoil hat wearing, black helicopter conspiracy theory they would come up with…
I’m sure it will be spectacular when they actually get around to thinking it up. Right now they are busy writing me poetry, but they still think I’m Heather. I’m going to have to buy her lunch one day to apologize LOL
He was busted because he violated the Stockyards and Packers Act.. he was spending the money in escrow to pay the ranchers etc for their cattle, pigs etc… on other things like bills etc.
This had nothing to do with inhumane treatment of animals unfortunately, that is just Daffy’s inability to read and comprehend the written language
yeah, i have seen that making the “rounds”. i believe that we have found some poetry that *is* worse than sueys…. i guess you should be glad the picked limericks and not sonnets….
That would require them to have an IQ above that of a rather dull carrot and I’m not even sure they can collectively meet that benchmark..
tears in my eyes again….
Ah yeah – hello. I’m Janet Schultz. I don’t visit here too often. Well, its just a place to become jaded real quick with the bad girl , gonna kick your butt, take you down, tear your hair out AND reveal you wear falsies.
Anytime you want to trash me – please invite me to the party. I just love getting all prettied up and spraying on the best just to sharpen my skills at jerking your cluster fuck attitudes out by the root.
You want to deal with stopping slaughter – yeah let’s do it. You inability to communicate rationally will be the downfall of your craptitude effort.
Did you forget to take your meds today?
Come on.
Dorothy: I have a new laptop, after using a desktop for so many years, i don’t get the right pressure on the keys sometimes. So let me repeat what I said: Your inability to communicate rationally will be the downfall of your craptitide effort. Does that make sense now?
Thanks Heather. Tony has lots of knowledgeable and compassionate folks helping him and contributing to The Wild Ones. Have you read it? As for people complaining, I haven’t heard any complaints or been complained to except here. Sounds more like mudslinging to me.
I come back to see if anything has been posted by Jo-Claire Corcoran (since she is the latest to try) that would be from me backing her misguided and misinformed attemp to discredit my values such as was apparently moderated into realdom by the owner of this blog. So far nothing has appeared on that subject. Don’t hold your breath people – she won’t find anything. But many have tried so don’t be too disappointed in yourselves. Funny I don’t really think you would be disappointed in yourselves anyway. To do so would be to have some depth in the critical thinking department.
Why are you speaking in riddles and why can’t you grasp that this isn’t Jo-Claire’s blog?
Oh great! Now we are going to blame the computer keyboard, not the operator head space and timing (military term for misfires in armaments). You could have corrected your posts. Who the F*** is Tony U???
Look, lady…I don’t know squat about you. I do know that there are many faux advocates for equines (wild and domestic) and if you get hit by shrapnel, it might be time to figure out why or you can keep building a deeper foxhole.
I am also sick and tired of so called antislaughter eating their own….this is why I have problems with PeTA and hard core vegans. You are not, repeat NOT helping welfare of animals.
Flame on.
Why don’t you head over to “The Wild Ones” FB page and give ol’ Tony a hand with his magazine? God knows he is in need of the help – there appear to be numerous peeps complaining about not receiving their product or service, one that you were strenuously hawking all over the place. While you’re at it, would you like to be the pot or the kettle today?
“You inability to communicate rationally will be the downfall of your craptitude effort.” ???? Say what? You’re troubled, aren’t you?
No, not really. It’s just a silly statement from someone trying to justify their own craptitude effort. That’s how I see it. Now go away. Shoo.
Who the hell are YOU? This Name/Blame Game is waaay over my little head bone. I don’t know ANY of you, and will be happy to keep it that way.
Lol, oh boy more fun.. Janet, if that post was simply because you “forgot to take your meds” you need to forget more often lol….. I am betting miss polopaula will turn out to be the same “I am seeking fame and lining my own pockets at the expense of the American Public, because I am a fantastic liar and story-teller, LL”
Word, Tina. Always a joy to see this blogs with pseudonyms for identities and tangentially attacking people personally or encouraging others to do so. I say it makes it all the more believable and legitimate.
“Word, Tina,” what are you a ex rapper or something. It’s time for you to come clean Janet for the pro-slaughter pro-BLM liar you truly are.
No reply button on your comment Jo-Claire Corcoran. I guess the saying is true that fame and fortune does go to the head of the less than gifted. So sorry. I would like you to bring and post here anything I have ever said that was pro-slaughter Jo-Claire. Bring it right here. Come on. You all like to fling crap – being in the bad girls club seems to make you all think your own doesn’t stink. It does. So again, back up your big ugly self with WORD. Oh in case, you don’t know what that means – it means TRUTH. Still aveering from any real attempt to stop slaughter. Im beginning to think you all just come here to twiddle your thumbs and see who can say the meanest things.
This isn’t Jo Claire’s blog. It’s MINE. So if you want to pick a fight with her, I suggest you take it elsewhere. I’m glad y’all are such avid readers though. You may not like what you read, but you’re reading and that means I’m winning! Go me!
Believe it or not, I DO know the “advocate” of which you speak and yes, she is everything you say she is. However – that does NOT give you the right to come here or anywhere else and trash people you don’t know one damn thing about.
Some of us actually check out what we post.
I so enjoy reading these blogs. Thank you for sharing!
HOW can you say its good news for the animals, WHEN now instead of being hauled to suagrecreek they now have to be hauled on a longer trip to the next nearest sale barn that accepts horses, thats a good 4 hr drive. I see this as a terrible thing because now instead of having a place to go, they will either be turned out to fend for themselves, starved, or put on a trailer with cattle to go someplace else. NOT a good thing.
and I must comment: I have not bought A horse from leroy ever, I have only bought the tack from the gentleman that sells it there. NOW I have helped others pick out horses. and again IF you think my horses are junk lets see yours cause apparently I have lots of ppl that think my horses are very nice.
I was reading posts on another message board from people that have attended Sugarcreek. Apparently, Leroy won’t even take any bids but from the KB most times and a horse doesn’t even get 30 seconds in a ring. No Daffy, we dont need establishments like this. Sorry.
Your horses are junk other than your little girl’s pony is probably a gem for putting up with y’all. I’ve posted lots of pictures of my horses on here. The big difference is I’m not breeding my GELDING….I rescued him.
HOW can you say my horses are JUNK when you have no clue about them or what i do. I have given you all peds to put up here for your followers to make up their minds about them but you refuse. SO again why do you consider them junk?
lets see: I have a proven money earner barrel mare, a cowboy mounted shooting PMU gelding , a retired gelding that was a money earner and point earner before the vet took him out of the competion ring, 2- 5 yr olds that are still in training, ONE is in trianing to be a rope horse(doc bar, jet deck and sun frost lines), bling is the one you love to put up on your page. He is in training for barrels and poles, a contest pony, and a 2 yr old.
Still don’t understand how you can say they are JUNK when ONE you have never seen them run, or work, You refuse to see how bloodlines they have are what ppl look for in working performance horses.,
So just for your readers: my horses bloodlines are one their papers are, doc bar, jet deck, ohio moon, sun frost, sonny dee bar, etc.
The last horse foal i have is a 2 yr old with doc bar bloodlines, My barrel mare which i provided her lines with is safe in foal to a dash for cash stud. BOTH horses are proven money earners. With excellant conformation and dispos.
Just because you have shit ass trail horses and could NOT even compete with me or mine, doesn’t mean you get to call them junk.
Bloodlines don’t mean squat when your horses are conformational trainwrecks. You’ve shown us your bloodlines and they are nothing to write home about.
BTW…I would pay cash money for you to come and take any of my horses on a trail ride and escape with your life. That is NOT their forte…LOL
Oh no Shedrow, I suspect Daffie just slaughters them, puts them in the freezer and eats her horses if they dont make the grade in her opinion. Here is a quote from a page where someone asked if anyone in the group had or would eat horse meat. She showed a very brave and knowledgeable (gag) face about processing and eating equines.
quote
Daphne Watson Yes i have, and actually have some in my freezer. I help a friend process his horses, and in return I get about 30lbs of horse meat.
Friday at 11:05am
Unquote
She goes on to describe how if it is prepared correctly it is very good and that she had a freezer full. Gag again!!! Be very afraid of sending one of your horses to this person, it may be dinner.
Daphne
does that mean he has the right to break the law?
I don’t know if your horses are junk or not, but they are doomed if you are in charge of their destiny.
why would they be doomed? they will never leave my farm ever. If something would happen to me, they are willed to my sister who has 75 acres. WHEN the time comes to put them down , i really don’t know what i will do because in my county you can’t bury more then 3 large animals due to the water table.( if i dig 3 foot down in some places i hit water), i have 3 buried. You are not allowed to compost, or place in a bone pile, the dump will pick them up, but you bettre have the correct forms from the epa, your vet, the sherrif, etc, and it costs upwards of 500.00 just for the to drive 2 hrs. The nearest rendering plant is 4hrs away and the horse can not be dead longer then 4hrs for them to pick them up , so that throws that out the window.
BUT why would they be doomed in my care?
Because you don’t know when they are so crippled they shouldn’t have ANYTHING on their back. Because they seem to have an inordinate amount of horrible injuries. Because you use harsh and cruel bits. Because you are clueless. I could go on….
Gonna call bullshit on the rendering thing too. You people all act like you are the only ones with large animals that may need to be put down. What does everybody else do? What do they do with road kill? There are other options than eating them.
it was in the news let me find it.
I think you’ve answered that question, ‘why would they be doomed?’ yourself, many times.
here ya go denise you asked I provided
http://www.thesocialsilo.com/2011/12/13/what-are-they-thinking/
You are EFFF’ing kidding right?????
A social network, in the vein of Facebook but for aggies??????
Baker is the only one interviewed????? No documentation from a legitimate news feed….just fucking Baker????? Done by a person that probably gets her tips from the police radio???? What did she major in…journalism? What papers and duration of employment? (aka credentials)
That ain’t news…that is propaganda with a TON of speculation.
And just a chemistry question for ya’: corn syrup? Gee, isn’t that what’s in biodiesel and ethanol? BTW, sugar cane is also used in biofuels. Doesn’t the operating temperature affect viscosity of the syrup? How much Karo did the vandal pour in that tractor? Must have been a couple of cases! When’s the last time you poured a bottle of Karo….the vandals must have been at the truck for a couple of hours or longer in cold temps. Didn’t they save the fuel filters and turn them over to the police? He didn’t record the AR phone call?
You know what? I think ol’ Leroy the scum sucking Loooooser is playing a game here…wanna bet that 81k came from an insurance payout? Where’s the police report?
What is to say this wasn’t a disgruntled employee or better yet, Baker committing insurance fraud? How about a creditor/person that is pissed off at Baker for not coughing up the dough they are due. And apparently good ol’ Leroy the Looooooser seems to be having a serious cash flow problem.
PSAs interviewing PSAs through unofficial means does not a fact make.
IOW…consider the source.
p.s. I didn’t see anything in the way of evidence or verification by this noble poster…is she Baker’s buddy? Go to Shitcreek Auction hoarding or dumping equines does she? On his Christmas card list?
Lmao, seriously, you going to whine about that but give FULL credence to LL and LP and all the propaganda bullshit they spew?? WOW talk about the kettle calling the pot black…
Tititina…
First… RCA dog look.
Second…quick! Somebody get me a proficient translator in stupid speak.
Third…excellent job with your rebuttal. It was so full of facts, references and sensible speak that you just shot the shit out of my points…yeah, like pigs fly and US horsemeat is certified as a food product.
Thank you for your contribution…I couldn’t have done a better job myself.
p.s. Getting down to your level…how do you know anything about kitchen utensils out side of a drive thru, bar-b-que or something that takes reading a recipe??
Italy, Romania and Poland are the top three countries in EU that consume horse-meat, representing a combined total of 65.4% of the total EU market. Horse-meat for human consumption is only valued if the meat is fresh and has a relatively short shelf-life. Due to the closure of slaughter plants for horse-meat in the US, US horses are shipped further under adverse conditions, compared to their EU counterparts. The EU has no interest in stopping the consumption of horse-meat, but have adequately addressed the methods of shipment. Perhaps the US could take lessons, and improve those conditions. Part of the problem in the US with transport and further legislation regarding transport of livestock, is one of enforcement.
“The repeated efforts of the EU to create satisfactory legislative protection and effective enforcement for the long distance transport of horses for slaughter are evidence that these are difficult goals to achieve. This may be an important consideration for well-intended welfare lobbies in the US that effectively banned horse slaughter within the US. The resultant increase in long distance transport to slaughter may have resulted in a yet unrecognized serious compromise of slaughter horses because of the inherent difficulties in protecting them through legislation and creating an effective system of enforcement that are well illustrated by the European experience. The length and duration of journeys from collection points within the US to slaughter facilities in Canada and Mexico are likely to be considerably longer than those from point of entry to the EU to slaughter (Stull, 2012). The US, like the EU, has no legislative control over these horses outside their own jurisdiction.” Retrieved from: http://animalfrontiers.fass.org/content/2/3/72.full Aug 2012. This is an uphill battle from the beginning. I am not opposed to slaughter, I am not opposed to other people eating horse-meat any more then someone who wants to eat deer, elk buffalo. Personally, I don’t eat any of the above. So the fact is you can not stop other countries from slaughtering and consuming horse-meat. You can not stop the shipment of horses for slaughter, you can lobby for changes in regulations on how those horses are shipped for slaughter, but just as they have experienced in the EU, enforcement and compliance will be a continual problem. You will not be able to stop kill buyers from purchasing horses to be shipped to slaughter, Again, efforts can be placed in other directions that could surely have more positive outcomes. As far as my sarcastic comment about poisoning those who eat the horse-meat from US horses. Long time studies clearly show the carcinogenicity effects of the majority of vaccinations that American’s give to our horses compared to other countries.
What about the horse products and medications that contain ingredients that are BANNED for human consumption in every country that has food safety laws? What about the fact the US has no traceability at all for horses? The killers couldn’t certify what a given horse has been given even if they wanted to. No one could. Such records are not kept in the US.
Banned substances ARE being found in US horses even with only random, postmortem testing – which is the only way testing for these drugs CAN be done. Or is that not a problem for you?
Yepp typical moronic behavior, and this is the future of our country? I provided a comment, with statistics and some really good information and that was the best you can come up with some simplistic name calling? Where do you live, let me send you a dictionary and a writing handbook so perhaps you can learn to do more then simply call names for lack of any better comment.
You aren’t here to discuss options or provide information. You are here to stir shit. To quote you from Tony’s page ” lol… yeee haww someplace new to stir the pot.” The only problems is that you are too stupid to really have any more annoyance to the regular readers here than a mosquito. Go kiss Tony’s drunken ass a bit more and maybe he’ll throw you a hero cookie.
Because none of you are here to “discuss options or provide information” either. You are here to promote your hate and keep your narrow minds closed, so certainly based on the typical rhetoric, my opinions and comments most certainly will stir the pot and piss people off. I am entitled to my opinions just as much as the next person. The thing is simply though, when backed to the wall the best you can come up with is “stfu”, ignorant, stupid, and other grade school name calling. You don’t attempt to “debate” or “discuss” anything contrary to your opinions, instead you attack the poster rather then addressing the content of any post. So go ahead call me names, say what you want, the more you get pissed the happier I get to be!!
You’re forgetting on important detail. This is MY blog and I can talk about what I want. No, you don’t get to come over here and be a pain in the ass. You don’t have to agree with what people think or say, but you don’t get to come just to `stir the pot’. You have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation so far. When confronted with facts, you just take a left turn to insultville. So, if you don’t like the format or how we discuss things there is a little red `x’ in the upper right hand corner I suggest you use. Or, I can just show you to the door until you have something to add here other than removing all doubt as to how stupid you really are. The choice is yours….last chance.
No offense but I have not been the school yard bully with all the name calling, that has been solely reserved for your counterparts. I had posted somethings, had not backed up anything with any stats or verifiable information, so I was challenged, and I did just that. Just as not all the horse meat goes strictly to Europe, they are the biggest consumers by far. So I did some checking and found that article I had referred to above. What was interesting, is that they also had some serious issues with transport and humane treatment and instituted some real guidelines regarding the transport, yet admittedly, problems have continued due to the inability to effectively enforce those regulations, and they have a smaller region to cover then the US. I think lobbying for those types of regulations regarding shipment of horses here in the US would be a step in the right direction. No offense, but there are plenty of folks who oppose slaughter and the inhuman way they are shipped to be “highway spies” that could actually help notify the proper authorities when you see something improper on the road,which could help with enforcement. We might even do better on that then our European counterparts. I don’t know if you realize or accept the fact that in a free market country you can not stop the shipment of horses for slaughter, nor can you close every single auction house that caters to kill buyers. Closing the slaughter plants was a different scenario, they were forced to close because they could not be inspected, and without inspection they could not process for human consumption. There is not an adequate market to sustain equine slaughter for other uses, so economically they had to close. If there in fact had of been a large enough demand for horse-meat for other uses then human consumption, for which federal inspectors would not be required, they would not have closed down.
But with all that said, the point is moot, because you are not willing to entertain any concept or idea outside of your own, so in reality there is no real discussion or informational debate.
They system is very flawed. Nothing is perfect. The concern of many on this blog is that opening slaughter houses domestically will only make matters worse. Yes, all those things you mentioned need to be addressed and done better. However, Rome was not built in a day and we can’t undo all the over-breeding, hoarding and general poor practices that cause people to want slaughter in a few short years either. There is a lot of information on this blog if you dig around. Whether anybody likes it or not, exporting horse meat is likely going to end next year with the EU guidelines being enforced. There is not enough money and no possible way to come into compliance with them in time. It’s not like this is going to be a huge surprise to anybody, but I’ll bet that all those depending on slaughter horses have their head in the sand and will by crying the loudest next year like they didn’t know.
And no, we aren’t going to be Tony Ullrich’s playground over here. He’s a drunken loser that does nothing but troll around looking for fights. Nobody is all that interested in listening to his crap here. So, if you want to run back and forth being the town crier like Daffy, go right ahead, but once you stop being amusing, you will have your faced pressed against the window like Daffy and her mom. It’s not a democracy here.
Wow Shedrowconfessions – seems you came up with that pretty darned fast – that part about kissing someone’s drunken ass. You familiar with that sort of activity? You must be the head bad girl.
Yes, I’ve observed enough of the PSA online activities, I’m very familiar with the ass kissing that goes on and TU’s drunkeness.
Tina Aguirre:
Are you related to the trainer in California that just got suspended for fiddling with Jockey Club foal/registration papers? Not important, but just curious.
As to your ramblings, look…I posted rebuttals regarding a so called “real” news story and got replies flying around everywhere save for the story and to include a lesson in pots and pans.
You want to debate?… stay on topic with factual information….not your anecdotal hearsay spread by the slaughter interests like Farm Bureau and personal blogs. Your side has a very tenuous situation because just about all of what the PSAs believe, repeat and rabidly defend are essentially indefensible in 2012. You are living in 1890 when slaughter was just a way of life for many near butchers and processors, cities and the use of equines. But remember, back then there were almost NO drugs, very little mass production slaughter lines and people in the US ate the stuff. That has all changed….but the the dumpers’ mindset hasn’t.
If you are concerned about transportation….support the bills and make states and Feds enforce the paltry rules on the current books. I don’t see you or any other PSAs trying to improve transport except for building more plants. You ignore economics and food safety even with that. And remember, equines to slaughter still went very long distances when the 3 plants were here…which you have been told a million times and refuse to understand.
And no one can throw in more epithets, profanity and down right verbal (but stupid) abuse than D. Duquette…one of your revered leaders. When it comes to rude, you guys not only take the cake, you bake it.
In the end, the anti-PSAs can take it and give some back. Sadly you are the most rude to equines and they can’t fight back…..maybe that is why you are so surprised at the human backlash to your antiquated, cruel management of equines and definitely unsafe meat biz practices.
First off I am not related to anyone in CA. My name is a married name, not a maiden name, and in fact I am the only one in my entire family who is into horses at all lol…
As I am still fairly new on this slaughter scene, and in all honesty had no idea prior to the last few years. I guess Slaughter was something like most people we are vaguely aware of peripherally, but not actually “in our face” To begin with Duquette is NOT my leader and I don’t buy into all their crap either.
I am more pro-slaughter then anti-slaughter, with mixed feelings in general. I do think slaughter serves a purpose to some extent, yet I deplore the methods, and how they are transported to slaughter. Same time, I do not want to see our country simply “breed for food production” either, nor do I want to see our mustangs be the easy quick fix for demand.
I understand the deal with the drugs we give our horses here in the USA, that plenty of reports clearly show do not simply go away after 90 days. Drugs proven major health risks for humans do remain in the meat.
Sooo.. How exactly do we attack this problem with all the excess horses here in America, that have rescues over-run to a point that people across America have resorted to simply turning domestic horses loose to fend for themselves? There are no simplistic answers or solutions. Ideally, breeders would slow down and be more selective in their breeding operations, and at least make an attempt to match their “production” with demand. Yet I think we have far more problems with back-yard breeders and hoarders then with top class breeders.
I used to have two horses, and could not sustain the support of two horses, so I found a rescue to take my senior mare and allow her to retire as a pasture pet, I drew the line in the sand when it came to the mare I currently own. If things change and I cannot afford to provide for her, I will find her a new home, and not one that ends in a kill pen. That is my choice. So please do not assume that anyone and everyone who is a “PSA” as you call them automatically a “Dumper” Furthermore I am NOT going to euthanize a perfectly good and useful horse simply because I no longer want her. Personally, I will find other options.
Additionally, I am a trucker. I started my driving career hauling horses. Not horses bound for slaughter, before you try on jump on that bandwagon. The horses we hauled were not cram packed into a livestock truck, but were in “stalls” generally stalls considered 1.5 (one and a half) or box stalls. Rarely would we even haul single stall, as this only created problems during transport. We stopped every 5 hrs to allow the horses to simply rest and provide water, re-fill hay nets if needed. Now if they would change the method of transport to follow more along the lines of equine transport by non-slaughter haulers, which would be a huge improvement. Even if they put 2-3 horses in a box type stall, would be better then what they endure currently. Yet as a trucker, the last thing I want to see is more regulation on drivers’ lol. Double-edged sword I suppose
How do you know there are all these “excess” horses all over the place? Most of these reports have been thoroughly investigated and have been found to be false.
There ARE many horses being abandoned in the desert Southwest, but not by their owners – why would all these owners who are so broke they can’t feed their horses drive hundreds of miles just to abandon their horses?
It’s the killers who are abandoning the horses that are being rejected by the Mexican slaughter plants. Thousands of horses have been abounded or left to die in feed lots without access to food or water. This has been well documented as well, but the killers will freely admit to doing this. The USDA in Texas doesn’t have the money to do anything about it even if they wanted to. Just like the sterling job they have done protecting our horses in the slaughter pipeline for the last 30 years. That’s how long I have been involved with this. I guess that’s because I lived less than 50 miles from BOTH the Texas plants and learned about horse theft, kill buyers and horse slaughter the hard way.
Why don’t you run up to Mexico or Canada and see for yourself like I have? THEN you will have a leg to stand on. As it is, you don’t. You truly do not know what you’re talking about. That wasn’t intended as an insult. It’s just the truth.
White Paper – Eliminating Horse Slaughter: https://www.box.com/s/67a22403323dd820a2cc
From Pasture To Plate FORBES: http://www.forbes.com/sites/vickeryeckhoff/2011/12/06/horse-slaughterhouse-investigation-sounds-food-safety-and-cruelty-alarms/
Abandoned Horses Final: http://www.box.com/s/sn881xn6m3ukb5t3ks4k
I have MUCH more, if you are interested that is. I don’t post stuff I can’t back up.
I’m glad you came along Suzanne….you always have a full arsenal of documentation and I do appreciate it!
A lot of abandoned horses in California and Texas are discards from the Mexican rodeo pipeline as well. That was covered here a few weeks ago. They use them for tripping and other barbaric events and don’t want to pay for their disposal. They often will lease these horses from kill buyers. The types of horses they use are the ones that won’t bring a good meat price, so they are just equine waste products to these sorts of people. As we know, how the KBs get their hands on these horses is not always above board….
Tina, I would suggest you do a bit more homework before posting propaganda. Are you not aware that from 1989-2006 when all three plants were in operation 775,474 US horses were slaughtered in Canada, Mexico and Japan? Why was it okay then but now you have a problem with it? You also forgot to include the just as long hauls across country to the plants.
You seem to not understand what our efforts are all about. We aren’t trying to stop anyone or any country from eating horse meat. That is their choice. It is OUR choice to keep OUR horses off their menus. Our horses are not raised or regulated as food animals and should never enter the food chain.
We have all seen Carolyn Stull’s papers and they are full of propaganda. Wasn’t she the one that was crying the sky was going to fall when the 1998 ban was passed in California? Not a peep out of her when the thefts decreased by over 39% immediately after the law was passed. Why not site a published peer reviewed paper from a credible source? Oh, I forgot, there aren’t any. Case in point, the slaughter plants our horses go to are EU regulated. The same hell holes that we had in the US and that are in Canada. No difference. Perhaps you forgot Lenz’ trip to Mexico where he gave the plants a thumbs up. The same thumbs up he gave the US plants. If Stull thinks there is no regulation in Mexico then there was no regulation in the US. Same owners, same regulations, same violations and same hell holes.
Sorry, but we don’t want our tax dollars going to another government welfare program for meat producers. It will take millions to fix the transport program that is currently run by the kill buyers, not USDA/APHIS. Millions for inspections, millions for a transport program, hundreds of thousands if not millions for a national passport system and on and on. With 80% of the country against horse slaughter, they surely should have a voice in how our tax dollars are spent. We are tapped out and it is inconceivable that meat producers want more.
BTW-what do LL and LP have to do with this discussion? My apologies if I am wrong but it appears that you are only trying to start trouble on this blog. Nobody has even mentioned wild horses and burros
Vicki I was not aware that we shipped horses to Japan for slaughter, and not sure how that would even be economically feasible. I do know we ship to Mexico and Canada, esp living in a state so close to the border of Canada. As I had stated above, I am relatively new to this entire controversy. As far as the notes that I had posted about EU, I found that to be a credible report, with facts and statistics and not just a bunch of emotional rhetoric. Sorry if you do not appreciate the statistics and efforts being imposed in Europe or the troubles they have equally encountered with enforcement.
In as far as LL and LP, well perhaps you do not realize that they are stalking your site!!
Simply, there is not enough demand for horsemeat for zoo’s and etc outside of human consumption to absorb the excess horses we have here in the USA because of a variety of circumstances including but not limited to: over-breeding by major breeding operators, back-yard breeders, and the severe economic downturn.
Right now you can’t hardly give away a horse, even with good bloodlines, their values have esp plummeted since the closure of slaughter plants in the US combined with our economic collapse that occurred shortly after the closure of the plants.
Regardless if we like the fact or not, slaughter provided a base price for our horses, and without that, the value of horses has fallen sharply.
Yet this still brings us back to the same point… American horses are full of drugs that are bad for humans and should not be allowed in the human food chain, yet I still cannot say unequivocally that slaughter should be banned as well as shipping horses from the US to Canada or other countries for slaughter..
I really am not up to speed on who LL or LP is, but I don’t really care who reads this blog. Lord knows we have enough asstards from HFA that frequent it….I guess if I was all that worried I would password protect it.
As far as the myth of not being able to give away a good horse…that is mostly crap perpetuated by slaughterphiles afflicted with barn blindness. Quality horses with the conformation and bloodlines are still bringing good money. What you have is a bunch of backyard breeders crying because their unbroke, crooked horse that had a cousin of somebody important five generations back isn’t getting much interest. Even the AQHA reported their sales stats for the World Sale on the increase last year and TB numbers are way up. I’m perfectly fine with people that breed junk getting out of the business. We were never going to clean up their mess in a few short years. Look how long it took them to create it? It is getting better.
Next year, every horse presented for slaughter will have to have an EU approved passport and microchip that carries the medication and all other information for that horse’s entire life. That pretty much wipes out slaughter for all these unwanted horses. This isn’t news, but how many of these bottom feeders are going to piss and moan that they didn’t see it coming and now need a bail out?
I still see good horses for sale at good prices. I think fewer people are buying them because they can’t afford it. There seems to be this wacky notion that if most of the horses in this country are killed off, they will become scarce and this will drive the price of horses up…the problem with this is that irresponsible breeders will still breed. Backyard breeders will do the same. Irresponsible owners will still neglect and abandon their horses. Horse slaughter will not erase the irresponsibility and ignorance of humans. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have so many abandoned/un-neutered/neglected/stray cats and dogs roaming the streets.
I think I must have said this a few thousand times or so, by now.
Slaughter probably created the problem….it sure never fixed it in all the years it was up and running. Besides, I thought Suey was worried horses were going to be extinct at one point? So the answer is to slaughter them!
Well to begin with I am in MI, and I don’t know about other states, but the sales ads and CL are full of unwanted horses, some that are well past their prime, and some that are unbroke, with good bloodlines, conformation, and they are going for next to nothing here. Also I think in as far as AQHA, and TB industry, I think if sales were being tracked the increase is coming from overseas sales, not in country.. But then again, we are talking about the cream of the crop. There are lots of really nice horses, with good bloodlines in their past that are not just crooked pieces of crap, not to say those don’t exist as well lol…. But you cant just say well these two breeds are doing fine, and all the rest are simply junk either. This is not a simple black and white issue. If the microchip thing does go into force, well I guess your problem will be solved, as no American domestic horse will qualify based on the vaccinations they are receiving. Or am I missing something else here?
Actually any TB we have bred and sold has been domestically and they are bringing solid prices. You get back what you put in. If you spend $500 on a stud fee, don’t expect to get a $10,000 foal out of it. Every time you breed a mare, you should be thinking who is going to want this foal. That’s where the color breeders are the worst of the bunch because if it doesn’t come out a crazy color, they are worth nothing. I only used TBs and QHs an example because they do keep good stats on their sales figures, but if you aren’t breeding the `cream of the crop’, then why are you breeding at all? I have family that are still ranching and a good, solid ranch gelding will still bring a really good price in those circles. Times are tough and not many people can afford to have a horse just because it’s `pretty’. They need to be able to do something, so breeding a bunch of junk and never proving your stock is a recipe for disaster in this economy. As anti-slaughter as I am, I’m even more anti-asshat. I do not think having a horse or being in this industry is a God given right. If you can’t afford to own a horse, then go volunteer at a rescue or therapeutic riding center and get your hands on time. As much as I would love to save every horse there is, I know what my limits are as far as what I have time to care for and what I can afford. We get into trouble when people don’t recognize their limits.
I’m going to leave your question on the identification to one of our regular readers that will be along as they are far more versed in this stuff than I am.
Tina, sorry, but I don’t buy slaughter providing a base price for horses. First, do you anyone that sells horses by the pound? That is just absurd. Second, why on earth would we let a foreign meat business set the prices of US horses? Slaughter sets prices for meat, not for live animals beginning a potential career. The horse industry doesn’t produce meat so there is no correlation. I don’t recall the yearling sale selling horses by the pound or any horse sale. I can’t imagine trying to sell the next KY Derby winner by the pound. Explain how getting $300 for a slaughter horse sets the price for the yearling sales? Isn’t that based on the value of the horse and its potential, blood lines, etc.? So how do the two correlate?
Slaughter is being used for disposal – nothing more. And you don’t use food production to dispose of any animal. I wouldn’t say US horses are full of drugs but several drugs banned in food animals are commonly used in horses.
Horses are non-food animals in the US. In our country, we euthanize non-food animals, we don’t slaughter them. I agree, there are too many horses right now but that is the fault of irresponsible breeding. If they would take care of horses they chose to bring into the population, the remaining horses belonging to owners that have fallen on hard times or simply cannot care for their horses for medical reasons (or whatever) could easily be absorbed. But that’s a whole different discussion for another day.
I agree 100% that breeding for “color” are some of the worst offenders in the entire industry. Also breeding for not only the color combo, but breed combo is pure insanity. They are trying to follow suit of the “designer” dogs and cats, and the animals suffer endlessly for those efforts. In as far as slaughter only being a means of disposal, that is correct. I do not know if any of you are familiar with Dr Don Hoglund DVM. He authored a book called “Nobody’s Horses” I had several chats and emails with him a few years back. His wife worked in Washington pretty high up in the USDA food chain… I do not understand the full economics of the slaughter issue, but if anyone wanted to contact him and ask him to explain how slaughter in the US provided the base price for horses, I am sure he could explain far better then my feeble attempts.
The TB industry has done a far better job trying to keep their breed out of the slaughter pipeline, but the biggest offender of all are the AQHA horses, which make up the largest number of horses in the slaughter pipeline.
As far as spending 500.00 on a stud fee, not expecting to get a 10,000 dollar horse lol, well you should go to the Ocala Yearling sale sometime, you might be a bit surprised lol.. At the same time, the horses being breed whose offsprings go to the Ocala sale, certainly won’t be found at the Keenland sale either.. Sort of like the difference between Wal-mart and Macy’s lol..
“Horses are non-food animals in the US. In our country, we euthanize non-food animals, we don’t slaughter them. I agree, there are too many horses right now but that is the fault of irresponsible breeding. If they would take care of horses they chose to bring into the population, the remaining horses belonging to owners that have fallen on hard times or simply cannot care for their horses for medical reasons (or whatever) could easily be absorbed. But that’s a whole different discussion for another day.” Good point.. Perhaps more could be done to encourage cheaper methods of euthanizing horses, and subsequent disposal of their bodies, to make that option better then shipping to auction. But I think even that comes down to a matter of convenience and greed. Someone can send a horse to slaughter maybe get a couple hundred dollars, or spend a couple hundred dollars to euthanize.. But I do think if euthanizing an animal was considerably cheaper, many people would opt for that versus shipping to slaughter. Not all, but many…
I’ve sold horses in Ocala and Keeneland and done very well with them. You get out what you put in. If you can’t double your stud fee back, you need to have another look at your breeding program. That will wipe out cheaper stud fees as well because you can’t raise a quality baby for $1000.
The AQHA should be ashamed of themselves. They could nearly wipe out HYPP within a generation if they would STOP registering positive horses let alone giving them world championships. I showed QHs as a youth and I’m thoroughly disgusted at what has happened to that breed all over greed. It would seem the executive does not have the best interests of the animals at heart.
I also agree with you that making euthanizing and disposal affordable would go a long ways. Already we see more and more gelding clinics, that helps too. I also think that these starving and neglected horses we see, the majority of them have nothing to do with slaughter or not. People suck and people do stuff like that. It happened when there was slaughter too. Those aren’t the horses that slaughter plants want anyhow. They want the young and healthy ones. The same ones people want as riding and ranch horses. Slaughter is just another big AG business. Nothing more.
If there are hundreds of horses no one wants in Michigan – why does Keith Tongen in Minnesota have agents – people lying to take horses by deception from caring owners and driving 600 miles to pick them up? He stops with almost every load from Minnesota in Manchester Michigan. Sure would be easier and cheaper to just collect all those supposed unwanted horses right there in Michigan and not lie to hide the horses that someone is trying to recover.
Tina ~ It’s about “responsibility.” If you will not take responsibility for your horses, you shouldn’t own them. Check this stuff out BEFORE you make that purchase. If a person can afford to keep a horse at all, they CAN afford euthanasia and disposal. To claim differently is nothing but a sorry excuse. Period.
“If the microchip thing does go into force, well I guess your problem will be solved, as no American domestic horse will qualify based on the vaccinations they are receiving. Or am I missing something else here?”
I don’t even understand this question. No, it’s not primarily vaccinations. It’s the many substances in horse products and medications that are banned from ever entering the human food chain.
As to what you are missing – I won’t get into THAT except to say how about the fact that the US is currently in the worst recession since the 1930s and that has a lot more to do with the bottom dropping out from under the horse market – as well as every other market – than a fictional lack of access to slaughter.
This is a very short post: It is just to assure each of the PSA people who have posted here, especially tony someone, that I am just me. My Horse’s name is Polo and my name is Paula. Actually, it is very easy to verify my identity. But I’m thinking these people are just too stupid. So if you suspect me as being a pseudonym for Laura Leigh, I would just say thanks. I certainly wish that I wrote as intelligently, factually, and compassionately as she does.
And a note to Denise, whom I admire. You can’t fix stupid.
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